Cummins

[dahoyle]

Like i was saying, the simple easy fix is use the SAE#3, then get a flywheel and from a cummins powered dodge. Say a 95 3/4 ton dodge cummins with a 5speed. Get the flywheel from whoever, NAPA, Advanced Auto, you choose. and then call a clutch manufacturer and get an OE style clutch for that same year truck with the 1.5in on 10spline input. All done. The only thing i have not tracked down is the starter for the set-up. But i beleive the same year model dodge cummins starter will work.

I don't mean to dispute this, as I don't know for sure, but I find that highly unlikely. First, if it were that easy, then I'm quite sure I would have heard of it before. Never even heard a hint that it would work. I'm quite sure that the diameter of the Dodge flywheel is quite different from an SAE flywheel, so the starter location on the SAE#3 bellhousing adapter would not be in the right place for the starter to engage the ring gear. Also, how far back is the starter mounting location from a known loacation? You could use the flange on the crankcase as a reference, I suppose. If they are in different locations, then the same thing applies. No way for the starter to engage.

Also not taken into account is the thickness of the flywheel, and where it will locate the clutch plate. Those are the two main hurdles to that theory, and as I said, it is unlikely that they are the same. A little research could disprove it, but I really don't think that is necessary. I'm going to go on the assumption that it won't work. There are just too many variables to believe that it would. Even 2 different SAE#3 flywheels for two different applications won't interchange, for the same reasons. Even if the Dodge flywheel worked for one, it wouldn't work for another. So that magical combination that everyone is looking for, for the 3053 happens to be the most common application available, and somehow, everyone missed that little detail except you. Like I said, I'm not out to bust your chops, but that seems pretty unlikely. You will definitely need an SAE#3 flywheel to use the SAE#3 bellhousing adapter. The only question is, Which one?

Doug

[dahoyle]

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/d...ghlight=rt6610

Another informative link. See what happens when you search.

Granted, the Roadranger isn't a Spicer, but I'm guessing that the flywheel and presure plate would work. Clutch and throwout would have to be specific to the 3053 input shaft.

[gun512]

I don't mean to dispute this, as I don't know for sure, but I find that highly unlikely. First, if it were that easy, then I'm quite sure I would have heard of it before. Never even heard a hint that it would work. I'm quite sure that the diameter of the Dodge flywheel is quite different from an SAE flywheel, so the starter location on the SAE#3 bellhousing adapter would not be in the right place for the starter to engage the ring gear. Also, how far back is the starter mounting location from a known loacation? You could use the flange on the crankcase as a reference, I suppose. If they are in different locations, then the same thing applies. No way for the starter to engage.

Also not taken into account is the thickness of the flywheel, and where it will locate the clutch plate. Those are the two main hurdles to that theory, and as I said, it is unlikely that they are the same. A little research could disprove it, but I really don't think that is necessary. I'm going to go on the assumption that it won't work. There are just too many variables to believe that it would. Even 2 different SAE#3 flywheels for two different applications won't interchange, for the same reasons. Even if the Dodge flywheel worked for one, it wouldn't work for another. So that magical combination that everyone is looking for, for the 3053 happens to be the most common application available, and somehow, everyone missed that little detail except you. Like I said, I'm not out to bust your chops, but that seems pretty unlikely. You will definitely need an SAE#3 flywheel to use the SAE#3 bellhousing adapter. The only question is, Which one?

Doug

Well here is the thing, i am doing a 6bt/3053 swap. Second you saying a SAE flywheel, that makes no sense, SAE standards are for Bellhousing size, also which SAE? SAE#7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0? Some SAE #2 use a 13" in flywheel when you can fit a 14". Here is what i am going off of, you can get a ford F600/cummins motor with a eaton 5 or 6 speed. Mid 90's. Guees what? It uses a SAE#3 bellhousing and from what i was told by the parts supplier i spoke with, also uses a 13"flywheel. What a coincedence, a upgraded size for a dodge cummins flywheel is ..... TA DA!!!! 13". Buying a used one from them that would still have to be turned was $200. WHen i can buy one brand new from Valair for $250. Anyhow, have fun with the swap, and all you need to mate to the 3053 is a SAE#3 bellhousing on the back of the cummins. No adapter ring need, which the only adapter ring i know of is the SAE#3-#2 adapter. The big limiting factor of finding the write clutch set-up is that most medium duty clutches do not use 1.5in/10spline input. I spoke with the Program Manager of Valeo clutch and he only found 2 on the shelf, but they offer dozen's of larger shaft. As for the flywheel thickness. Not worried about it, there is tons of adjustment that can be made betwwen the pedal and throwout bearing. Just because you have not "heard" of it being done does not mean it can not be done. I will be back from Iraq in December to complete the swap and will be posting the pics when i am done. If you know of a way to do it, post it, PM me if you need guidance.

[gun512]

General Information for the cummins to 3053 swap.

This guy had to use a SAE#2 to use the 14" clutch. Notice the input shaft size.
http://www.sanco-bg.com/Conversion_NV5600.htm

SAE bellhousing sizes
http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/sae.htm

Guys talking about what is needed to place a 3053 behind a cummins.
http://www.powerwagonadvertiser.com/...hp/t-3668.html

[dahoyle]

Well here is the thing, i am doing a 6bt/3053 swap. Second you saying a SAE flywheel, that makes no sense, SAE standards are for Bellhousing size, also which SAE? SAE#7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0? Some SAE #2 use a 13" in flywheel when you can fit a 14". Here is what i am going off of, you can get a ford F600/cummins motor with a eaton 5 or 6 speed. Mid 90's. Guees what? It uses a SAE#3 bellhousing and from what i was told by the parts supplier i spoke with, also uses a 13"flywheel. What a coincedence, a upgraded size for a dodge cummins flywheel is ..... TA DA!!!! 13". Buying a used one from them that would still have to be turned was $200. WHen i can buy one brand new from Valair for $250. Anyhow, have fun with the swap, and all you need to mate to the 3053 is a SAE#3 bellhousing on the back of the cummins. No adapter ring need, which the only adapter ring i know of is the SAE#3-#2 adapter. The big limiting factor of finding the write clutch set-up is that most medium duty clutches do not use 1.5in/10spline input. I spoke with the Program Manager of Valeo clutch and he only found 2 on the shelf, but they offer dozen's of larger shaft. As for the flywheel thickness. Not worried about it, there is tons of adjustment that can be made betwwen the pedal and throwout bearing. Just because you have not "heard" of it being done does not mean it can not be done. I will be back from Iraq in December to complete the swap and will be posting the pics when i am done. If you know of a way to do it, post it, PM me if you need guidance.

For the sake of argument, let's consider any discussion of SAE to either a 2 or a 3. And yes, I believe I did say that in any given SAE size, that there were any number of combinations, some workable, and some not. I also know that some flywheels are flat, and in some, where the Presure plate bolts up, they are raised, sometimes looking like a large bowl. Yes, you can certainly account for the some of the throwout "throw" by making adjustments, but no, you have absolutely no control of the length of the input shaft or the input housing. How will you account for differences in those areas without taking the thickness of the flywheel into account. You can't.

You say that you are doing a swap, and I'll take you at your word, but I deal with this stuff pretty much on a daily basis, and I do know that there are any number of variables that you aren't taking into acount. You haven't even said how you were going to get your starter to engage. I'll give you a clue. Not all flywheels have ring gearsw with the same diameter and pitch, so unless the Dodge flywheel and the SAE #2,3 or whatever are the same, again, it isn't going to work.

Yes, I know that you don't need an adapter rign to go from a SAE #3 clutch housing to the Cummins SAE #3 bell housing adapter. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'm not going to go out on a limb here and say that it won't work, but again, if it does, you are the only person on the entire internet that knows about it. Ask yourself how likely that is. I'm not trying to start a fuss here, but I don't think it will work, and I think that it is a dis-service to the members here to say that it will, unless you have it bolted up right now and are driving it down the road on a regular basis. Could work, but you are giving advise that you don't know for a fact is accurate. I find that to be somewhat irresponsible.


In any case, Hope you find yourself home soon, and thanks for serving. In the meantime, keep your head down.


Doug

[dahoyle]

One of the links you posted was previously posted by me in this same thread, and nopwhere in it does it say that the Dodge flywheel would work, One of them is a SAE size chart that falls into common knowledge category, And the other specifies that they used the following parts, none of them include a Dodge flywheel, and are not for a Spicer 3053, in any case.

FSO-6406A Trans-1.75" input

Gear Shift

SAE #2 Trans Bell Housing with Shift Forks

SAE #2 Flywheel Housing

Cummins 14" Flywheel

14" Pull Type, Single Disc Clutch

28MT Starter


I'm not sure how you use any of them as an example that what you are saying will work.

[dahoyle]

http://www.sanco-bg.com/FO-8406A-AWS...Comparison.JPG

I think that this image on the link you posted says it all. The flywheels are obviously a different diameter, but more importantly, there is no way that the starter ring gears are the same size. A starter installed in a flywheel housing for either one, would in fact, be impossible to fit up to the other. please explain how the SAE #2 flywheel housing that he used would work with that Dodge flywheel. There is also a visible difference in thickness, with the Dodge unit actually the thicker of the two.


Let me say again, this is not personal, but the information you are working from is in error.

[gun512]

General Information for the cummins to 3053 swap.

This guy had to use a SAE#2 to use the 14" clutch. Notice the input shaft size.
http://www.sanco-bg.com/Conversion_NV5600.htm

SAE bellhousing sizes
http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/sae.htm

Guys talking about what is needed to place a 3053 behind a cummins.
http://www.powerwagonadvertiser.com/...hp/t-3668.html

I guess you misread...where does it say that i said it used a dodge cummins flywheel? Also a 5.9 out of a F600 with the spicer 6 speed uses a 173 tooth ring gear, so does the 8.3 as long as it is not the cupper version. Also, so does the 3/4ton and 1ton dodges! And from what i have been told from the heavy truck supplier the starters mount up the same. So before i buy $270 that i have to order from a big truck shop i will walk the 500yards to a parts store and get a 170 one. Another thing i have posted all of this before. Since you are obviously "Everbody on the internet" and since you have not heard of it, it can not be. Search the site a bit and you will see i have already posted some of my same findings. I am not posting one thing that i have not been told by a manfacturer or parts supplier that it will work. I specifically called SouthBendClutch. Maybe you have heard of them. And told them i wanted a medium duty clutch (spicer type) that would fit the cummins/3053. There response after not finding a clutch that would hold the tq ratings i wanted was that i could use the dodge clutch, just modified to the 1.5in/10 Spline input. So, call South Bend Clutch and tell them what a massive "disservice" they are doing. Until you post some factual data. There is no reason for you to post.

[gun512]

http://www.sanco-bg.com/FO-8406A-AWS...Comparison.JPG

I think that this image on the link you posted says it all. The flywheels are obviously a different diameter, but more importantly, there is no way that the starter ring gears are the same size. A starter installed in a flywheel housing for either one, would in fact, be impossible to fit up to the other. please explain how the SAE #2 flywheel housing that he used would work with that Dodge flywheel. There is also a visible difference in thickness, with the Dodge unit actually the thicker of the two.


Let me say again, this is not personal, but the information you are working from is in error.

I specificaly said above that you could not use a SAE#3 bellhousing and a 14" set-up. Thanks for asking though

[gun512]

Another thing, show me some factual data that something will or will not work. I am going off of the people that i have spoke with. Project Manager of Valeo clutch, Southbend clutch, and i beleive the site is heavy parts supplier online. I would love to know the right way because i don't want to spend all of this money for no reason.